>> garrett: today on "face the nation." the countdown to sequester continues. with just days before draconian spending cuts are scheduled to kick in, washington is preparing for furloughs, cutbacks, and delays. can anything stop them? >> these cuts are not smart. they are not fair. they will hurt our economy. they will add hundreds of thousands of americans to the unemployment role. >> garrett: we will get the latest from education secretary arne duncan and hear from two key members of the senate budget committee, could iand tim kaine. and then we'll talk to some of the governors whose states will be hardest hit and ask what they think of new gun control and immigration law. republicans bob mcdonnell of virginia, and jan brewer of arizona. plus democrats martin o'malley of maryland, and colorado's john

hickenlooper. and we'll also continue our conversation on gun control after want newtown shooting. what is the impact of violent video games on kids? and what kind of mental health laws do we need to help keep things like this from ever happening again? it's all ahead on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. substituting for bob schieffer, cbs news chief white house correspondent, major garrett. >> garrett: good morning, again. bob is off today. friday $85 billion in across-the-board spending cuts are scheduled to take effect. nearly half the cuts will be to defense, the pentagon saying that $800,000 civilian employees could face furloughs, and

everyone in the federal government from f.b.i. agents to meat inspectors to emergency responders could face furloughs. education funding and head start could also be especially hard hit, and we start off this morning with education secretary arne duncan. mr. secretary, thank you for joining us this morning. >> good morning, major. thanks for having me. >> garrett: i know you will get to some of the implications of the across-the-board cuts, but in the recovery academy the education department received $98 billion. isn't there room in your budget, mr. secretary, to absorb some of these spending cuts and not have some of the negative effects that have been tellsed so far? >> our money all goes out to school districts. as you know, the vast majorpt of federal money goes to help vulnerable children, whether children with special needs, poor children whether whether adults in college doing work study, whether our babies in head start. we don't have any ability with dumb cuts like this to figure out what the right thing to do

is. it means children will not get the services and opportunities they need and as many as 40,000 teaches could lose their job. >> garrett: how soon could that happen? i heard immediately, early in the fall. is there a "the sky is falling?" >> some will happen immediately and some in the fall. there are teachers now getting ping slips, notices they that he want come back this fall. we need to invest in education, educate our way to a better economy. any time we have fewer children in head start, fewer poor children, fewer children with special needs getting the services they need is not good for families and not good for want country. >> garrett: and there is nothing you can do in the budget to shield, or buffer these programs you deem essential from the cut cuts? >> it gives us no ability. it's across-the-boards dumb cuts. we're willing to make tough calls-- >> garrett: such as. >> we cut out $68 billion going to subsidize bankers with our

student alone program. we put about 28 to reduce the deficit, $40 billion to increase pell grant. we've gone from six million pel recipient recipients to 19million. that's us showing creativity. >> garrett: you mentioned pink slips a moment ago. who is sending them out, states, because they're hearing from you? >> this is local school districts trying to manage i was a superintendent and c.e.o. for seven and a half years. this is the spring. you're trying to plan your package for the fall. and with this much instability, this much chaos coming from washington-- again, fact that this is so easily avoidable is why i'm so angry. if information would just work together, compromise, find a middle ground, we wouldn't put districtand families and children through this much trauma. >> garrett: the white house did concede earlier this week-- and i know oops a debate the white house doesn't like to get into-- but want idea for the kroos want board spending cuts did originate with the white house. do you think the administration

regrets the idea in the first place. >> i think the sequester was set up to be so painful for everybody, recognition want desfunction of congress to be so painful it would force people to come want to table and the in fact people in congress are so tone deaf to what is is going on in the district and what will happen is to me unimaginable. we tonight have to be in this situation. this is not rocket science. we could solve this tomorrow if folks had the will to compromise, come to the table and do the right thing for children and try to keep growing the middle class. that's what i think we all want to do displag there is a countdown phenomena building up around the story, but do you think there's any possibility that-- there was some discussion of this in the morn papers -- come march 2, if the sequester, the across-the-board spending cuts happen, nothing terrible will occur, and voters will say, "wait a minute. this seems all exaggerated. >> it's not just what happens on march 2, it's april, may, june, going back to school this fall. if we have 70,000 less children in head start, if we have tens of thousands of poor children and children with disabilities not getting want services they

need, children of military families gettingproportionate impacted, so families where the parent parents are serving in iraq and afghanistan, all of a sudden those children get a worse education. that's not right, major. that's not fair. it doesn't make sense. >> garrett: we're also going to have another conversation later in the show on gun control. you came from an urban school district. chicago has been tragically, horribly in the headlines of late. what's your take on the arc of the gun control debate right now, and how does it affect you personally? >> thursday, the vice president and i spent a couple of hours in connecticut with want families of children who were killed in the sandy hook massacre. we spent times with families from the bridgeport community and that's where i think we should be spending our time, talking about how to reduce gun violence. we spend time talking about stupid issues like this in congress doesn't make sense. we have toviate a climate in which our children can grow up free of fear. we need a lot fewer children being killed and a lot fewer children worrying every day am i going to be safe? whether it's the south side of

chicago or sandy hook or arizona or colorado, our children deserve something better. >> garrett: mr. secretary, it's been great to see you this morning. thanks for coming in. i appreciate it very much. we will turn to kelly ayotte, in khan "e, manchester, and tim kaine. last friday the white house said it hopes the senate-- meaning led by the democratic leadership-- will begin debates and votes on alternatives to across-the-board spending cuts. what is your message to the democratic leadership? how soon do you want that debate to begin, and why is it taking so long for it to begin in the first place? >> well, we laid a plan on the table about 10 days ago, and we will be voting on it this week, major. and i completely agree-- i think this needs to start in the senate. if we can find a balanced package independent senate that gets bipartisan support we can avoid the and wester cuts. i just did a trip around virginia to armed services installations in the last week

in virginia, 90,000 dodd employees getting purlod, including nurses at army hospitals, and wounded warriors, who are scheduled to transition back to civilian life who in many instance instances have as reservists and they would go back into working in national security positionst federal level, and they're facing hiring freezes and furloughs that make them wonder whether they can resper civilian life. there is no reason this has to happen. we need to find a balanced approach, and that's the approach we will be voting on this week. >> garrett: but senator kaine, to my original question, why is it attacking so long? you know in the commonwealth of virginia the cuts have been in the pipeline, there have been warnings about it for a good long time, and many americans look at the situation and say why does it always have to wait until the last minute? >> major, you're right. i'm new here. i've been in the senate about six weeks. there's no reason we should be playing this kind of brinksmanship. and we have brinksmanship around sequester and later

brinksmanship around continuing resolution. what we need to do-- and you mentioned senator ayotte and i are on the budgeting committee. we're writing a budget in the senate this year for the first time since 2009. the right way to make decisions about spending brevenues and even about deficit reduction is parent of a normal, ordinary budget process. let's get rid of the gimmickes, sequester, continuing resolutioning, get back to ordinary budgeting, just like what happens in every state capitol every year. we're moving back to that, and that's going to be the solution to these exphdges doing it in a balanced way. >> garrett: senator ayotte, i want to bring you into the conversation. the democratic alternative will call fair mix of spending cuts, but also tax increases. are you prepared to support any tax increases? will republicans develop an alternative vathat have any loophole closings or do you think it should be done with alternative spending cuts. >> major, let me say that i agree with what tim said.

i serve on the budget committee and have out raged we haven't had a budget for three years because the senate democrats haven't wanted to do it. we wouldn't be in the sequester-type situations if we prioritize spending. in terms of the democrats' plan, it seems like the first thing they come up with is we're going to raise taxes after having increased revenue, as you recall, in january, $600 billion over want next 10 years without any spending cuts. i think republicans should have an alternative inment senate. i'm working on one to introduce one that will show that we're looking at a little over 2% in a $3.5 trillion pot of federal spending in 2013. so that's what we need to do. i'll capitol hill up with an alternative spending cut proposal with other colleagues in the senate. and i want to add this. i think also the notion of giving the president the discretion to make the spending cuts, i think that's a cop-out, so i will be urging my colleagues to have an alternative. >> garrett: senator ayotte you

proposed legislation that would allow some of these cut to be carried oaf or dealt with through attrition at the federal employee level-- meaning if there are people who leave the federal workforce they're not replaced. one would be replaced for every three vacancies. are you going to press that before the senate. >> i have offered that proposal along with buck makeen in the house. it's taken from the presidento own fiscal commission. i'm working on an alternative with other spending cuts to bring forward, working with other senators that i believe we will bring forward, and i think that's the right thing to do. i mean, stepping back for a minute, think about you had the secretary of education on previously. if you look at between 2008 and 2010, if you add in the stimulus, the education spending increased 41%. what we're looking at is how can we come up with more sensible spending reductions. i agree with tim that we don't want to undermine our national security. i in fact traveled around the country with senators mccain

and graham and actually went to virginia. we've been talking about this for a year and asking the president for a year to come forward. in the campaign he said this wasn't going to happen. it's time for him to lead this effort as the commander in chief of this country. >> garrett: senator kaine and ayotte i want to ask you the largest threshold question. the fourth quarter g.d.p. numbers showed negative growth and there are indications that some of that might have been caused or oridge in any evented with concern in the defense sector. both of you represent states that have large defense either operation or contractors. is this the wrong time to be cutting any spend in addition washington? do we risk any sort of cracks in the economy if we go through with these, no matter how they're composed? >> i think it is a rich and that's why i think we need a balanced approach. the senate and house working together have already reduced spending by about $1.4 trillion and there was a $600 billion increase in revenue. the right way to fix it going forward is a balanced approach

that doesn't cut too deeply. just use the virginia example. yesterday, governor mcdonnell, my governor, you'll have him on in a minute, worked on a legislature of democrat schedules republicans for a compromised transportation package that reduced spending in some line items and increased revenues. it was a balanced approach. he had to buck grover norquist to do it. it wasn't perfect, because compromises aren't perfect but it's that kind of balanced approach that will preserve armed services and defense and enable our economy to grow instead of choking off as aware whatwe're seeing as a strong stock market and other indications we can have success if we approach it this way. >> garrett: do we have an austerity risk or do the cuts need to happen? >> i think we can do this in a more sensible way. what we need is leadership from the commander in chief. rather than-- he's been out campaign ago even though this idea came from the white house, apparently from jack liu,s had

treasury nominee. he's been out trying to blame republicans. i think the american people are tierld of the blame game to come up with responsible spending reductions. we can do that without hurting our economy. also dealing with our tax code to make us more competitive instead of just the first answer being further increasing taxes. that's what away can do to help economic growth and move forward. >> garrett: senator ayotte, thank you very much, senator kaine, we have to go. thank you both very much and see you on capitol hill very soon. we'll be back in one minute to hear from four of the nation's governors. can be a tough act to follow, but at xerox we've embraced a new role. working behind the scenes to provide companies with services... like helping hr departments manage benefits and pensions for over 11 million employees. reducing document costs by up to 30%... and processing $421 billion dollars

in accounts payables each year. helping thousands of companies simplify how work gets done. how's that for an encore? with xerox, you're ready for real business. the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf.,? and every day since, we've worked hard to keep it. today, the beaches and gulf are open for everyone to enjoy. we've shared what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. bp's also committed to america. we support nearly two-hundred-fifty thousand jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger. >> garrett: the nation's governors are in town for their annual meeting and we're joined by martin o'malley, bob mcdonnell, plus jan brewer and john hickenlooper from colorado. governors, it's great to have

you with us. i want to start with you, governor o'malley and mcdonald. i understand you had a conversation yesterday, and you two, despite representing different parties are trying to figure out some way to resolve the sequester across-the-board spending issue. what do you have to tell us? >> governor macdonald and i talk fairly often, actually, about issues that we share and on both sides of the potomac we sit in the middle of a corridor of science and security and this sequester stands to wipe out a lot of hard-fought job gains in virginia and in maryland, so for whatever our differences might be, we understand that this is an economic threat. this is going to hurt a lot of moms and dads in our region can of who go to work every day working in places like n.i.h., n.s.a., and also the people that work in the private sectors that support our federal government in these important mi sions. so both of us hope congress will come together and find a way to avoid the sequester. >> garrett: what's your message to republicans in the senate and house, governor mcdonnell? >> we have to get the job done.

sequester was put in place to be a hammer, not a policy, and now here we are just a week away from getting it done. our major concern that governor o'malley and i have because we're such defense states-- 19 installations, 25,000 defense contractors in virginia-- is you have to cut because we're in bad shape. $17 trillion almost in debt now. but don't put 50% of the cuts on defense. our men and women in uniform, while we're still fighting a war in afghanistan. that's not right way to balance the cuts that are necessary. find another way to do it and get it done now. >> garrett: what are you two going to do in a unified way the next coming week. there's going to be a debate in the senate and if that's not resolved, these cuts begin on friday. >> we're both going to be pushing our congressional delegations-- >> garrett: you'll be trying to reach out to the president? >> well, sure. we're going to be meeting with the president tonight, and we'll be meeting with him tomorrow and no doubt the threat to our jobs recovery is in doubt. we've made the tough cuts and made the tough congratulations

of choices and i congratulate governor mcdonnell. he just came through a tough legislative session where they applied a balanced approach and that's what congress needs us to do, a balanced approach naallows us to create jobs and expand opportunities glaring governor mcdonnell, while you're here, the package you put through the legislature has tax increases. is anything you're saying in republicans to congress who are adamantly opposed at this stage after having raised taxes on the fiscal cliff deal, lighten up on that, put taxes on the table or loophole tolz get this result. >> before we approach this transportation bill this session, we had major spending cuts. we've had other tax decreases. we've done a lot of things to get us to be a very competitive state for job creation, economic development. but we had a different approach when it came to infrastructure. what i would say-- and governor o'malley and i agree, and we're work together to make sure we don't have the defense industry hurt this badly and 200,000 jobs from my state over 10 years. i would say, you can't solve the budget crisis if you don't take

on medicaid and medicare and get serious about things like simpson-bowles and actually cutting spending. i would say that's where they've got to go first. they've had 18 months. >> garrett: so no tax increases? >> the solution is up to congress. i'm saying don't put all the burdens on the states and the military. you guys figure out how to get it done glaring some of the things the administration has said would be fewer border patrol agents. do you worry about that in arizona and i have an immigration question but first i want to tackle that? >> there has been so much uncertainty in what the impacts will be so we have been looking diligently into our agencies about where and how we can cut. it's about a $140 million budget cut if it goes according to what we have been presented and what we know today. but certainly, the security of our border is very, very important. and it is cutting border patrol

agents. >> garrett: is your message to republicans give in on taxes, resolve this, protect your state from these budget cuts? >> you know, you know, i think they need to resolve it. i think that-- >> garrett: should they resolve it with tax increases. >> they need to do and it has to start with leadership from the top. this is unacceptable to the public. the uncertainty, the unknowing of what's taking place. we know that given the cuts is going to hurt us, people we have to deliver those kinds of services. but more than that it can really hurt our economy because arizona, too, is-- you know, we've got raytheon there, which we don't know exactly what that's going to do, but it's going to cut a lot of jobs. and we as a republican governor that inherited the largest budget deficit in the country, we resolved that. and now here we've got the federal government over there in my opinion not doing their job. and then it's left to the states to solve it. >> garrett: is it a greater danger for you to deal with

these cuts or would it be a greater danger to the economy for republicans to give in on raising taxes? which do you want to see? >> ( laughs ) you don't give me very good choices. ( laughter ) you know. >> garrett: when the president talks about balanced that's who he's trying to present and it seems to be the cutting edge where the debate ultimately will get to. >> as a governor it is difficult for me to be honest and say, okay, i know all the answers because i don't have all the insight baseball games and for me posit here and say i know every detail of what they're dealing with there. we don't like taxes. we don't like increase in taxes. but we know we have to be pragmatic. we know there has to be some kind of compromise, but dang it, they need to get the job done. they don't need to leave the public out their hanging. >> garrett: john hickenlooper, there is involvement in colorado walz. what does this look like to you? who whatare you most concerned

about and what is your message while here in washington? >> it's the same as all the governors. we need a balanced approach all the western governors had breakfast with the secretary of the agriculture and the interior, and they laid out in detail how many food inspectors would be cut, not jus colorado but across the united states in making sure our food is safe. they looked at cuts in public safety. if they kupt the f.b.i., but say we're not going to cut the f.b.i., you'll kupt the u.s. attorneys office, the bureau of prison, border patrols. what has to happen-- and congress can do this. if us governors can work together so well, i think congress can do it, and just figure out the right balance. >> garrett: a simple yes or no question to all four of you. we'll start with you, governor, and go around this way. there is some suggestion maybe the administration is over-playing, over-dramatizing what's going to happen if these spending cuts do take effect. is there any could tout in any of your governors' minds that

what the administration is saying is real, will be felt by your constituents in relatively short order. governor brewer? >> i think it's unpredictable. i do believe that we're going to see if they don't get their act together, we're going to see some cuts. i don't know if they're going to be all that dramatic in the period of time. they've got to deliver a budget to us, too, in a few short weeks. they just need to get in there and do what they're elected food get it done so we can deal with it. > it. >> i think the effects will be significance, and people will feel them. >> garrett: you do? >> absolutely. you look at things like education, it's going to cut title i funds. these schools are going to have a very short period of time to figure out-- are you going to cut i.d.e.a., which supports our kids with celtic disabilities. these are possible choices. >> garrett: governor mcdonnell, there's no exaggeration? >> i think the president is

overplaying his hand to force people to try to raise taxes. but he's right that particularly with defense, and that's where governor o'malley and i agree on this because we're such heavy defense-oriented states-- 50% of the cuts to the defense sector, which is is only about 12% of the discretionary domestic spending while we have kids in afghanistan. that's what is wrong about it and why he and think they have to find a different formula. defense has to be cut but don't put it on the kids in uniform. >> these are job-killing cuts and we have to find a way to avoid these. we cannot cut our way to prosperity. we need a balanced approach. glaring we'll be back in a moment. and metal-free in seconds. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price.

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